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Post by Spawn on Jun 27, 2006 15:41:33 GMT -5
I think Jason would win...hands down........
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Post by Nightmare Master on Jun 27, 2006 15:56:46 GMT -5
Jason. No doubt about it.
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Post by Isodore on Jun 27, 2006 23:30:15 GMT -5
Jason. No contest. The guy's got better armaments, he's stronger, and faster...not to mention even artillery fire and a box of grenades to the face can't even keep him down for more than 24 hours.
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FK02
Dreamer
Doo da loo
Posts: 52
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Post by FK02 on Jul 4, 2006 11:18:17 GMT -5
Michael, without a doubt. He's stronger, faster, more agile, and although he carries a small knife he can definitely find better weapons.
Not only that he is FAR smarter and not human. Jason is a stupid human/zombie thing.
So Michael hands down.
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Post by Isodore on Jul 4, 2006 15:31:18 GMT -5
Agility; Michael does win. Strength-wise; Jason wins. Even against and on Freddy's turf, the guy's able to heave a loaded boiler tank off his body with ease. Speed? It's a common horror theme for the bad guy to be right behind you, you run like hell, and suddenly he's inexplicably in front of you. I'd have to say they're about equal in this department, as they've all done that sort of "First you see 'em, now you don't" thing.
Intelligence? Jason's hardly stupid (and is ANY horror villain human in the sense you may be suggesting?) . True; much of his killing is a stimulus-response, but he's known to set traps and lay out his victims in a manner that does suggest he's a lot smarter than given credit for.
Not to mention the fact that he can possess other bodies if you manage to kill him...
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Post by Pooky on Jul 5, 2006 18:05:11 GMT -5
I go Micheal. He was the first, & in my oppinion, the best. But in all honesty, I don't think either would win in a face-off. You can't keep either dead.
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Post by Isodore on Jul 5, 2006 18:10:53 GMT -5
You may have a point there. XD
As for the slasher-horror genre; it's commonly said that Michael set the bar, but Jason set the standard.*
In an overall body-count matchup, Jason surpasses Michael with a kill rate of well over 100 (Michael's down in the 80's, and Freddy's all the way back at 44 or so) They're both horror icons in their own way, but on a popularity matchup, Jason's easily more recognized.
*Then Clive Barker went and created "Hellraiser" and completely turned it all upside down XD
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FK02
Dreamer
Doo da loo
Posts: 52
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Post by FK02 on Jul 5, 2006 18:26:45 GMT -5
Agility; Michael does win. Strength-wise; Jason wins. Even against and on Freddy's turf, the guy's able to heave a loaded boiler tank off his body with ease. Speed? It's a common horror theme for the bad guy to be right behind you, you run like hell, and suddenly he's inexplicably in front of you. I'd have to say they're about equal in this department, as they've all done that sort of "First you see 'em, now you don't" thing.
Intelligence? Jason's hardly stupid (and is ANY horror villain human in the sense you may be suggesting?) . True; much of his killing is a stimulus-response, but he's known to set traps and lay out his victims in a manner that does suggest he's a lot smarter than given credit for.
Not to mention the fact that he can possess other bodies if you manage to kill him... Okay, I give Jason the fact that he can do smart things sometimes. But he must be on the steroids cause most of the time, it's get the hell out of his way lol He never LIFTED the boiler. That boiler half covered him and he took some strength to TIP it over. Also to be fair, Michael WALKED through glass doors in Halloween 2. Jason tries something similiar in JTM, but he kicked the glass down just before it. Looked like a fly kick. Not good enough? Okay, well, Michael can stick a scalpel in a nurses back and lift her with ONE hand. He can lift people while choking them with one hand. Jason need TWO. H20, Michael lifted and lowered himself down from a supoort beam on the cieling with ONE hand. That would take INCREDIABLE strength. Jason never did that. Wel, the opportunity never came round but I'd like to see him try lol! It's common misconception that cause Jason is bigger and more aggresive he is stronger. Not the case. For speed, okay I give it to Jason that he can be fast. Ona nd off camera. But I think Michael has just a little more speed. Okay, on the whole 'he posses people' thing. I would never have considered the aweful movie 'JGTH' cannon in the series to begin with. But after Michael destroys Jason, how EASY it would be for him to crush that stupid little creature that posses people under his boot. It's a done deal. I've done this many times, as you could probably tell, and a lot of people actually backed me up before. But you have your opinion, I got mine, lets respect that, at least you know why I think he would win now ;D You may have a point there. XD
As for the slasher-horror genre; it's commonly said that Michael set the bar, but Jason set the standard.*
In an overall body-count matchup, Jason surpasses Michael with a kill rate of well over 100 (Michael's down in the 80's, and Freddy's all the way back at 44 or so) They're both horror icons in their own way, but on a popularity matchup, Jason's easily more recognized.
*Then Clive Barker went and created "Hellraiser" and completely turned it all upside down XD
Most people know him at present. But that could be cause he had more recent films than any of the others. Freddy is by far the most iconic and was the most recognizable in the 80's. Michael, his movies are spread out. I liked Hellraiser. A lot. Boring and slow but picks up soon into it and I loved how it was all done.
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Post by Isodore on Jul 5, 2006 18:53:03 GMT -5
Inevitably however; one must question the intelligence of all slasher villains, as somehow, at least one target always manages to get away from them XD
If by "half covered" you mean "left one arm and his head sticking out", then you're right there. There's still the fact that he's able to shift the thing at all.
Not quite relevant in a strength matchup, as Jason's crashed through his fair share of obstacles as well (leaping double-kick through the multi-paned window in "New Blood" anyone?)
Correction: Needs two, or used two? Yeah, so he used both hands, but Jason has been shown to hurl a human body at what appears to be the length of a football field. I'll also mention shoving a person's head into a metal with enough precision and force that their face leaves a defined imprint?
Did he ever have a reason to though?
and what makes you so certain he couldn't?
Debatable. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If only because he's not hampered by heavier clothing and a decaying body. You have to admit; for a rotting zombie-type guy who typically has months if not years for his parts to atrophy, Jason's pretty stinkin' fast.
True, the whole "Jason suddenly has a sister!" bit was odd, as was his appearance and all, but keep in mind that the Necronomicon's presence in the Voorhees home WOULD explain just how Jason returned the first time after he drowned...
Just as easy as it was for three people, all dead-set on seeing Jason gone for good, armed and in close quarters with the thing to step on it themselves?
No doubt. I may have my opinion, but from an impartial point of view, the fight would never end between those two.
Yep, and thanks for actually taking time to respond, rather than just blowing it off and saying "OMG MICHEELL OWNZORZ!!!1one"
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Post by Nightmare Master on Jul 6, 2006 15:14:32 GMT -5
Ok, Jason is OBVIOUSLY more powerful than Michael, because he is quite taller and well, bigger. But neither would beat one another, because they are both EQUAL in strengths and intelligence. Although, I would be honest here, if they did have a face off, and found a way to kill each other, they'd BOTH be dead. But Jason, by my perspective is by far stronger. And I hate to say it because I despise Jason. I don't like Michael much either, but better. If you put all the horror icons in the world together, they'd either kill each other, and there would be no survivors, or they'd just keep fighting forever. So, I say EVERYBODY is equal. Although, I get it, Freddy Krueger would get his face knocked off, but he'd keep coming back. But anyway, back to Jason Vs. Michael. THERE IS NO MATCH!! They're both equal, thus, there will not be a winner. Unless Jason happened to have chopped Michael's head off and threw it into the water. So, really it all depends on what they do. xP
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FK02
Dreamer
Doo da loo
Posts: 52
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Post by FK02 on Jul 6, 2006 15:25:08 GMT -5
1. True lol! 2. Yes, he was able to shift it. But it looked to me like he used some serious power. It still doesn't change the fact he wasn't fully covered, and near enough half. Almost just a section. 3. As for the windows. I'd say it is very relevant. Michael, he plain walked straight through it with hardly any force. You could say those glass panes would be strong. No doubt, otherwise, they wouldn't be a wise choice for doors. As for Jason jumping through the cabin windows, even Michael would have to run jump that, he is no grasshopper. So he ran and jumped and his HUGE body mass did the rest. What can I say lol! ;D The guy is BIG! 4. Yes, you could argue that. In which case I say as I have before, I hope to see the two do battle soon cause Jason never gets many opportunities to do some of the unique things Michael has, even though Jason can do some narly stuff with the right tools at his camp ;D Also, Michael has punched his thumb through a guys skull. And Jason has punched a guysh ead clean off. Both were done so the imprintes were clear. The head came clean off. The thumb went through the skull perfectly without shattering it to many pieces and making amess. Now those can be compared in a way. All the muscles in your thumb and hand CANNOT comapre to your fist and entire arm muscles. This must be correct, I can't imagine it not being. When Jason took his swing he pulled right back and THUMPED it with effort. When Michael's thumb went through the skull, it was with hardly any effort what-so-ever. That to me also says a lot strength wise. 5&6. Well, like I said above, the right opportunity needs to arise, and I'm not very sure he could do such a thing. But we shall wait and see. 7. Yes, true. It is debatable. But I would like to point out that Michael's body is only a shell for the evil inside him. That shell is just of different build and although he takes hits LOOKING more affected than Jason, it is arguable that he probably couldn't feel them at all. But when he starts holding his wounds, maybe he doesn't want to lose the wrong thing that stops his body from working? Very debatable and all down to your own personal view and speculation. 8. I'll admit looking back on it, Jason is very fast when he wants to be. But I guess it depends on who plays him and not what we get with the movie lore. Cause I noticed Ken Kerzinger had a far slower pace than that of Kane Hodder (and in fact slower than any actor to portray Jason) on screen. 9. Well, you see, that book was just used as a clever cameo and nothing more. It could suggest all the weird stuff going on. But it was never mentioned again. It could have been just a normal book with a funny cover in that film for all we know. But Jason never drowned as a child. Some of the old timers say he survived and lived in the woods, lost and scared to return. Then saw his mother get it one night and came back pissed. But the thing is, that was told at a camp fire story in part 2. And we never see old timers in Jaosn films. Only sexually, drug crazed teens, ready to die lol! Plus if he came back at the end of part 1, why in part 2 was he a fully grown man, only set a couple of months after part 1? It is apparent to me that the end sequence in part 1 was a dream. As it was meant to be. So it all runs fluently, and that film ruined everything entierly. 10. This is true. Very true. But the little thing scampered so fast. And Michael ain't got a half bad arm on him. So he could throw a knife through it, stamp on it quickly, grab and crush it. Chances are that thing will be mad and try and posess him. Michael won't let that happen. 11. It is debatable if the fight would end or not. It would be very long and brutal. But if that's from your point of view then that is fine. That comes from me too, but really, it all comes down to 'Who makes the wrong move first?' or if there was any interference. It would be very long and the odds are perfectly 50/50. But I believe Michael would finally get it. So, yep, we all have our views and opinions and I felt I had to feed in some more of mine, we should be perfectly straight now LMAO! Oh, I like people to know why I think something and I would never just blow it off and say 'MICHAEL OWNZ' LMAO! That's just not me, I could do that after a very long time if no one was caring and trying to get me to change my mind though lol! But here, I think things are running differently, and for the better Alos, thank YOU for taking time to reply and for not blowing it off. Cause everytime I post this, I get a cheecky reply that blows off and sometimes if they reply like you did (quite thoughrouly and sufficient) they still feel the need to bad mouth me in some way. At least here we respect each other.
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Post by Isodore on Jul 6, 2006 18:59:45 GMT -5
25th anniversary of the original Friday the 13th release, I believe there was mention of a Freddy v. Jason v. Michael film on the horizin...
Sadly, that was my least favorite preference though. One silent killer works well enough..I would've preferred Ash or Pinhead as the third person..
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Post by Pooky on Jul 7, 2006 2:00:36 GMT -5
Now that I finally got to see at least Freddy vs. Jason I can compare them better. Obviously, Jason has one fear. Micheal? Not so sure about that. (haven't seen the first one. XD) So given the fear factor, I'd say Micheal definately has the advantage here.
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Post by Isodore on Jul 7, 2006 6:53:29 GMT -5
Fair point, but with two flaws.
1: Who's to say Michael would even know how to handle that fear? The match where Jason's "fear" was exploited was against someone who specialized in fear. Michael's not stupid, but he doesn't have a Ph:D in fear-psychology. If he'd gone up against Freddy, we'd likely see a counter-point made about how Michael has an exploitable (if innacurate) fear of some sort.
2: First point I made, and your argument is/may be moot. Jason's "fear of water" was a directing/writing innacuracy. As we see at the end, Jason's calmly strolling out of the water...not running, not paralyzed from shock or fear, just strolling out quietly like the lake is a sidewalk.
In addition; where does Jason build his "hideout"? edge/middle of a lake.
Where has he made at least three-four of his kills? from a lake/underwater.
What did he do in his final showdown with Tommy Jarvis? Charged headlong into the lake and under it without any doubt.
So yeah...the "fear of water" bit is most likely something Ronny Yu threw in to make their fight more interesting. In actuality; water is hardly a concern/worry for Jason.
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FK02
Dreamer
Doo da loo
Posts: 52
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Post by FK02 on Jul 7, 2006 9:36:45 GMT -5
Well, here's my theory on the matter. Wel you see, Jason is still human, and when in the real world he has no fear of water.
But remember in the dream world ANYONE'S mind is Freddy's to control. Freddy reached DEEP inside his brain and pulled out that little boy inside, who (caus ehe nearly droned at that age) would have been TERRIFIED of the water. Freddy was able to pull that fear out to the fore and there you go, one Jason who is TERRIFIED of water. But we all know once awake again, he wouldn't be even PHASED.
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